@liaizon oh well, time to brace ourselves for impact if they set their eyes on conquering the fediverse :blobsleepless:

@vala "brace ourselves for impact" is pretty apt. but also this can only be good for the fediverse in the long run. Just means we have our work cut out for us..

@liaizon true, and while federating with twitter will probably kill a lot of pi-hosted instances sd-cards if they try to keep up with twkn :feelslainman:, it will also mean that we can interact with creators who didnt find their particular niche at the fediverse :lainhappy:
@liaizon or just finally be able to yell at @jack like everyone else without signing up for twitter :AsukaShrug:
@vala @liaizon well, only if you use backfilling old posts

@mewmew @vala I wish we had that ability now. That is honestly one of the only features I miss all the time from centralized social networks.

@liaizon @vala we do have that in Pleroma at least - the problem is that it's recursive so you end up crawling the entire Fediverse, instead of only the profiles you're subscribed to (it's killed more than one instance)

@mewmew wait its already in pleroma? how do you do it? I have an instance and if I follow a new person I have never seen before I don't see any old posts. How can I get it to load their old posts?

@liaizon

config :pleroma, :fetch_initial_posts, enabled: true, pages: 1000

(set pages to whatever you want)

keep in mind this fetches whenever your instance comes to know about a user, not when you subscribe to a user, so it WILL recursively crawl the entire fediverse and is probably a terrible idea. but it does have it.

@mewmew wow cool I didn't know this. Well kaniini is currently hosting my pleroma instance so I wont try it now haha

@liaizon @vala wait what?

how could it be that having a massive behemoth that's famous for sheltering abusive users and cracking down on queers lumbering in our general direction anything but terrifying?

@technomancy @vala cause the whole point of the fediverse is the ability for individual choice. small instances here already will simply block the "twitter instance" and nothing needs to change. But if twitter just becomes the mastodon.social. then people will be able to migrate seamlessly from there to a small personal communally run instance and it could be the best of both worlds

@liaizon @vala responsible admins who want to protect their users will be forced to block twitter's instances because their moderation is woefully inadequate

this will create tension between people who just want to be able to talk to their old friends vs people who came to the fediverse because it's a place they can actually feel safe

we've seen this convenience vs security divide before and it always ends up with security getting thrown under a bus

@technomancy @liaizon instance blocking is kind of a hard measure though, as it removes a lot of the choices from users of the instance, but muting twitter and hiding it from the public timeline (and somebody introducing instance only posts as part of activitypub) will probably be enough for most cases.

might depend on the community in question though. some are more closed off than others :weebshrug:

@vala @liaizon in my mind instance blocking is the best-case scenario; it's easy to imagine a situation in which Twitter uses its 800-lb gorilla status to pressure ActivityPub into making protocol changes which suit it at the expense of the wider community, fragmenting the fediverse.

it's similar to when Microsoft went from ignoring the web to starting to develop Internet Explorer. remember how well that turned out for the rest of us?

@technomancy @liaizon in my head the best case scenario is if twitter makes interest specific instances, so clout chasers can stay in one place, brands another, gamers put together in a potato spec server, politicians can burn in a dumpster fire along with the rest of political twitter etc.

maybe it is just my bad experience with instance blocklists that float around the fediverse already, as new instances doesnt tend to check out the instances listed or even ask instance owners how they handle reports before blocking.

blocking can be used for good (who really needs to see the boomers of gab for example), but most of it is just depriving instance users of new people to talk to. just my 0.2 buccarinos

@vala @liaizon that scenario sounds OK, but I just don't see what's in it for them. every possible motivation I can imagine involves them pushing for things that are bad for everyone else.

@technomancy @liaizon @vala Maybe they lost enough of the edgy market to 4chan and Gab for that to no longer be a viable means of operation. Or they're looking for the exit because they know something about the company and are trying to bail their users out.

@liaizon Did Barry alter reality in the latest crossover episodes! 😆😆

@heluecht I am like whaoooohhh I did not expect this to happen this year. I thought we were another few years out before jack would even acknowledge we exist over here.

@krozruch @heluecht I am sure most instances here now will def treat it exactly like we treat gab. but its Still a good thing cause then people will already be on the fediverse and telling them to change instances AWAY from twitter can be even easier then today.

@krozruch @heluecht imagine getting to export your followers from twitter to a single user instance and have it work just like it works on mastodon rn. thats a future I have been waiting for like 10 years

@liaizon @heluecht I was mainly joking based on my own experiences of late etc. I worry about big players ability to manipulate protocols through lobbying etc., but yes, I can see that it could be a good thing.

@krozruch @heluecht oh yes its gonna be a fucking nightmare of a war if twitter gets involved with the protocol decision making process, which they inevitably will. and if they join then google and facebook will probably send their goons over too so they can have their say. This is why we need to get to work NOW

@liaizon @krozruch @heluecht idk, I'm not so sure about that

Twitter joining the Fediverse eliminates most of the bad things about Twitter

@mewmew @krozruch @heluecht It depends on where you stand on many fences. For me personally I am fine with federating my single instance with twitter. But many groups will *not* want to federate with them, because they use the fediverse very differently then I. And thats one of the things that makes this place great!

@liaizon @krozruch @heluecht Yeah, I understand. As long as there's no "block Twitter or we block you", I'm fine.
@mewmew @liaizon @heluecht @krozruch This is ultimately a power play in Twitter's best interests.

We're in the filling of a "We're making changes to Twitter to offer a unique experience above and beyond anything else on the web" sandwich right now. The pendulum will swing back and cleave the 'verse again.

@seasharp @mewmew @heluecht @liaizon On a purely technical level, could a bad actor whose modus operandi is data mining and surveillance capitalism, enter the fediverse and strip mine it? Ie. could it be that, say, Twitter's entry into the Fediverse might be good for users on the one hand (more interactions, more choice etc.) and kick up one hell of a lot of market externalities for democracy, manipulation of public opinion etc. whether this happens on Twitter / Fediverse or not?

@krozruch @liaizon @heluecht @mewmew i absolutely think so, and i also think its somewhat inevitable. The only bullwark against the gamification of these kinds of information systems is a culture of critical thinking and vigilance, the brainshare and decision capacity for which is under assault from all sides.
@liaizon yes please, let's burn this fucker to the ground and start over

@_ should we convince jack to hire @kaniini against their will? even though kaniini wants nothing to do with twitter?

@liaizon @kaniini i honestly think kaniini is the best possible candidate for the job, partly because they hate the idea right now and also because whatever they might do in that position is certain to be interesting

@gudenau @ashfurrow we are a ways off yet. Probably a few years away from having to actually worry about that.

@apLundell lets let them do the first two. and then run into the woods with all our new friends.

@apLundell the extinguish can only happen with the companies. We are in a better place then most times "Embrace, extend, and extinguish" has been done. Not that we don't have to prepare.

@liaizon You don't want them to do the "Extend" part.

In the famous Microsoft mantra, it means to extend with proprietary features to gradually make interoperability difficult and then impossible.

@apLundell ok maybe just a little extension. they can use some of their stupid tech money to make it easier for non tech people to get an on-ramp onto the fediverse.

@skOsH just fill in the blanks in the timeline by copying over the missing posts - post by post!

@liaizon
1. this is very utopic
2. if this ever happen it will be just like "Microsoft loves linux/open-source", this ain't no good to us

@liaizon
"and then we'll replace them with a team that actually thinks 'our' way" are my imagined unspoken words to follow that.

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the personal instance of Liaizon Wakest