@marie_joseph @liaizon @SubwayTooter yep, to me this whole thing sounds like whataboutism to avoid taking responsibility. Also the argument of Google pressuring the ban of content you do not have an issue with is... I mean the bar is pretty low. I think genocide, and racism isn't really hard to identify.

@diabeticus @marie_joseph @SubwayTooter there are 4 million accounts in the fediverse and new ones every day. The idea that a client app has to keep track of that is literally insane. Apply the same logic to any other type of client app. Imagine if your text editor had to not let anyone write anything hateful. it is protection in the absolute wrong place.

@liaizon @diabeticus @SubwayTooter you don't have to track accounts, just instances. Between isolate Gab and general community vigilance, Tusky has demonstrated that is very possible and very effective. Husky ("Hitler Tusky," a fork of Tusky) literally only exists because Tusky's block list is effective.

@marie_joseph @liaizon @diabeticus @SubwayTooter what does it mean for the block list to be "effective" though? That user counts of fash instances go down? There is no way to quantitatively assess that since gab and other large fash instances are known to make up their user numbers, and as you said Husky exists and is easily available, which calls into question whether Tusky has actually prevented anyone from using those instances.

@marie_joseph @SubwayTooter @diabeticus @liaizon also I think that the point of the OP, is that if google is going to be requiring that web applications filter what users can access from third parties, then they need to be applying the same standards to themselves. Google is definitely not applying their rules fairly.

it would be *great*, and would do so much more good, if google chrome didn't allow you to access infowars.com or other right-wing extremist websites, but they will never ever do that. Instead they pass on all the work to open source developers and continue to allow much worse shit on their store, as well as on their own browser and on youtube.

@mithrandir @SubwayTooter @diabeticus @liaizon you make good points. In this particular instance, the criteria for success are obvious insofar as they are immediate: is Google trying to ban your app? It's not a great criterion in general, but it is the one we are presented with at present.

@marie_joseph @SubwayTooter @diabeticus @liaizon I mean, I think it's more about whether google *should* delete the app, than whether they *will*

@mithrandir @marie_joseph @SubwayTooter @liaizon I absolutely agree with this and they should. But that doesn't remove each and everyone's responsibility. It also gives more legitimacy to follow their policy and push them to apply it to their own products rather than just refusing. Effective or not it is about mitigating the reach of this kind of dangerous groups that have real life consequences. Even if it is a little bit.

@diabeticus @marie_joseph @SubwayTooter @liaizon I don't think it is up to individuals to do the job of huge institutions, if those institutions are what are failing us in the first place. Google will definitely refuse to do this on their own products no matter how much they make other developers do it.

@mithrandir @marie_joseph @SubwayTooter @liaizon I think big institutions are not an excuse to not take personal responsibility. I do not throw my engine oil down the nearest stream because Exxon does it. Also large companies pay attention to what people value. If we turn a blind eye and point fingers as to who should do something they will too.

@diabeticus @marie_joseph @SubwayTooter @liaizon this is a bit of the opposite case than your analogy, I think a more apt one is like when BP runs ads about how to recycle. They are saying "do as I say, not as I do."

Huge companies pay attention to what people want, specifically they pay attention to what people want *of them*. If we point the finger squarely at them, where it belongs, they will squirm. Ultimately I think the most we could hope for is better enforcement of hate speech rules on youtube and a crackdown on predatory apps in the app store. Both of which would do much more good than allowing google to force some open source apps off the app store. But Google will never really do what needs to be done because, like every other huge tech company, they profit indirectly off political turmoil and right-wing propaganda.

@diabeticus @SubwayTooter @liaizon @marie_joseph Basically I'm saying that Google is not our friend and never will be our friend and there are better ways to disrupt fash propaganda, such as internet raids and spam.

@mithrandir @marie_joseph @SubwayTooter @liaizon I see what you mean and agree. But again to keep going on that metaphor :) I recycle even if BP is hypocritical. I think it is the same here. We should all take responsibility even at a small level and also keep large companies like Google to their word. One is not dependent on the other. But I get your point.

@marie_joseph @liaizon @diabeticus @SubwayTooter
> husky (hitler tusky)

i lold

@carcinopithecus @liaizon @diabeticus @SubwayTooter I believe that is what the creator said it means. It's been a while and my memory is often unreliable, but.

@carcinopithecus @liaizon @diabeticus @SubwayTooter I don't think the creator was like, "I'm calling it Hitler Tusky because I love Hitler." I think it was more like, "I'm calling it Hitler Tusky to piss off the SJWs." But it's still not a good name.

@marie_joseph @liaizon @diabeticus @SubwayTooter and here i was thinking it might've been a possibly unfair caricature

what a year of everything being worse than previously believed

@marie_joseph @liaizon @SubwayTooter Right? You don't even actually have to try, you copy that list as a show of good faith and everyone is off your back.

@penny @marie_joseph @SubwayTooter how do you know the list is made by trustable actors? What happens when there are new entries on the list each day. What happens when there is disagreement about who gets on the list. This sort of breaks down the whole point of a decentralized network.

@liaizon @penny @SubwayTooter they've managed to handle or avoid these problems for over a year, which I think demonstrates whatever methods they're using are effective.

@liaizon @marie_joseph @SubwayTooter It's a slippery slope huh?

@penny @marie_joseph @SubwayTooter I am not saying that facism or racist bigotry or transphobic shit should be tolerated at all. I am just saying that it should not be up to app developers to make that call. There is not yet a way agreed upon to have a colaberatively managed and shared block list. Having one person who holds the repo for what instances get to be logged into is just a horrible way to manage this issue.

@liaizon @marie_joseph @SubwayTooter It is your responsibility, no more, no less.

@penny @SubwayTooter @liaizon I think we all want the same thing, then, you just disagree with the methodology. I'm cool with that, my apologies for not realizing sooner.

@penny @marie_joseph @SubwayTooter @liaizon I’m on several block lists and I’m not a Nazi or a white supremacist (I’ve been accused of it, which is funny because I’m not white).

Who gets to decide who is blocked and who isn’t? Does Tusky block the paedophile instance? Who gets to make these bullshit arbitrary decisions?

Google is afraid of the Internet the way it use to be: distributed, decentralized, free

@djsumdog @penny @SubwayTooter @liaizon @marie_joseph Lets not beat around the bush, we all know exactly that the criteria to get banned is a political one, not a legal one. Its right-of-center places that get banned.

@shebang @penny @djsumdog @SubwayTooter @liaizon yes, the promotion of oppression. That's the political criterion that results in blocks.

@djsumdog @penny @SubwayTooter @liaizon @marie_joseph
>i'm jewish you morons
😂🤣😅👌👌😭

@djsumdog @penny @SubwayTooter @liaizon @marie_joseph That's bullshit, as a penguin you're about 50% white

@djsumdog
literally everyone who is using pleroma, miskey or doesn't agree with them is evil, they made that very clear



@penny @SubwayTooter @liaizon @marie_joseph

@penny
my dude that list literally blocks instances because they have funny names or because one user doesn't behave like they want

"oh wow this instance has a foreign word as name, IT MUST BE NAZI!"

"oh this user doesn't want to obey me, a random user from another instance, HE'S A NAZI!"

and even though I'm wording it in a silly way I saw users behave like this, and this is the same side that constantly threatens from deaths to doxxing

there's no good faith in agreeing to violently attack others
@marie_joseph @SubwayTooter @liaizon
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